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Katelin Brand

Dr. Allen

English 319

15 September 2008

WC: 1199

 

A teacher’s role inside a classroom

 


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            The discussion about the teacher’s role in a classroom has been brought up by two very important scholars in the education field, Peter Elbow and David Bartholomae. Peter Elbow’s view on the teacher’s role in the class is that students can be taught something without a teacher or teacher figure. Bartholomae’s argument against Elbow’s is that students (people) are influenced by other people (such as teachers), events and social and political experiences. Not only do these two scholars write about teachers in the classroom they argue about the actual role that the teachers plays and how they(the teachers) influence or not influence the students, in writing and in reading.

            Starting with Peter Elbow’s take on the debate over what the teacher’s role in the classroom is, his focus is about voice and how students (the public) can use theirs to be taught by themselves. He mentions that a successful way to express your own voice is to do free write every day. Elbow’s rules about free writing are you can never stop writing, not to edit or not to wonder how to spell a word. (Writing without Teachers pg. 3) If you stop writing during your free write “your voice is damped out by al the interruptions, changes and hesitations between consciousness and the page” (Writing without Teachers pg. 6). Which means your so called voice really isn’t your voice, it’s the edited voice that you want people (the readers) to hear.  Elbow also writes that if you use just your voice it “…is the forces that will make a reader listen to you, the energy that drives the meanings through his thick skull” (Writing without Teachers pg. 6). Elbow also describes voice as what is “sifted through his entire self” (Writing without Teachers pg. 8) without the influences of others and the society communities. When expressing your own voice in your papers, the teacher’s role starts to fade away especially if the students (writers) follow Elbow’s arrangement of what voice and free write should really be.

            Teachers should be looked at as “not as frontier guides but as managers, people who manage substations in cultural network…” (Writing with Teachers pg. 66). Bartholomae’s view is that teachers should be looked at as managers and when he says that he means that teachers should be there to correct, to influence, to be able to focus students- the public- on what the guided writing should be. Bartholomae also says that “hid[ing] the teacher is hid[ing] the traces of power, tradition and authority present at the scene of writing….” (Writing with Teachers pg. 63). Since the majority of society has followed what Elbow has created, Bartholomae is afraid that they (educators) will keep the knowledge of writing but most importantly academic writing from our students. Bartholomae wants the future teacher to become …”one that becomes a subject in the classroom where we ask young writers to think about, or better yet, confront their situatedness” (Writing with Teachers pg. 64). This statement is a direct hit against Elbow’s theory of teachers should not be in the classroom but they should be a part of the student body. Again Elbow’s theory is to have free write in the classroom-this involves not actual teaching but does involve the students to write what they feel. In Bartholomae’s argument  he shoves Elbow’s theory back in his face by saying, “In my department, this other form of narrative is often called “creative nonfiction” or “literacy non-fiction”-it is a way to celebrate individual vision, the detail of particular worlds” (Writing with Teachers pg. 68) Both scholars have unique points and have distinctive support for their work.


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            Not only does Elbow and Bartholomae discuss what the role of the teacher is in the classroom, but what types of writing the teacher should develop in the classroom, a writer who freely writes about what he/she wants to or an academic writer, more focused on a topic and to meet the criteria of a teacher’s expectations. In order to write you must learn how to read. Peter Elbow focuses on many questions about reading and how it is tied together with writing. Starting with the question, ‘What we should read in the first year writing course…” and to follow there are many more questions another one is “How to read these text…”, and “How much to read…”, and one of the last ones, “What my attitude should be toward these readings when reading them and teaching them to the class” (Being a Writer vs. Being an Academic pg. 73, 74, 78). Having a teacher in the classroom makes the students write and read what the teacher wants to hear, therefore students are not allowed to write and read what they want to hear and what they want to feel when they are writing. On the other hand having a teacherless classroom it gives the students the pleasure that they are able to red at their pace and to write to their understanding. When a student is able to write to their own pleasure they are able to call their writing their own writing, but visa-versa as well when a student writes for someone else’s pleasure, this could bring pleasure to themselves just knowing that they might have caused an up roar over something that they wrote.

            Bartholomae’s writing career has “[made] my life difficult enough that I sometimes wonder why I went into this business in the first place” (Against the Grain pg. 20). He writes, “How I write is against the grain” (Against the Grain pg. 19). I ask what does he mean against the grain. As Elbow says never to revise when you write, Bartholomae says he writes and revises all the time and he works efficiently knowing that he is able to revise so he can get his point across without repeating himself. Bartholomae also writes, “Without imitation and, therefore, tradition….kind of textual conversation/confrontation with people whose work matters to me and whose work, then, makes my own possible” (Against the Grain pg. 21). He is talking about Elbow’s work, without his views there would not be the argument what him and Bartholomae have created. This proves Bartholomae’s points as no one can write without influences. Bartholomae tries to teach his students to write against the grain, such as he did/does, so they can be challenged and analyzed in new ways. “…to teach students to work against fluency, the “natural” flow of language as it comes to a writer who has a grasp of a subject” (Against the Grain pg. 23).

            These two scholars have opened new doors for students to explore and for students to establish their own critique on the teacher’s role in the classroom. If it’s the teacher needs to be an influence and help the students or guide them in on a new writing path or if they need to be transparent in the classroom and allow the students to learn from themselves. Either way the argument(s) of both sides are exclusive. “Learning to write means learning this and learning to handle it” (Against the Grain pg. 27).

Posted by katiegirl0120 on September 15, 2008
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Total comments on this page: 23

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Audra D. on whole page :

I liked how you incorporated Bartholomae and Elbow’s quotes and arguments into your paper and overall I really liked it. But I found that particularly in your first paragraph the words in parentheses were a little distracting. Besides that nice job!

- Audra D.

September 17, 2008 2:36 pm
Nicole on whole page :

I like how you use the two scholars to debate about the role of the teacher in the classroom. Where do you stand on this issue? Maybe you could include a paragraph about your own ideas on the subject. Very nicely done.

Nicole

September 17, 2008 7:12 pm
Steve on whole page :

Your paper is well organized and is a fair evaluation of both authors. It is a good summary paper, but is that your goal? If you are trying to get the reader to think about the two authors; then you need to state that in the introduction. I suggest that you consider giving your opinion on the subject. What do you think? How do you feel? The biggest concern is what is the purpose of your paper.

September 18, 2008 8:03 am
Rachel Hillmer on whole page :

This is a very strong and eloquently written paper. You do an excellent job of explaining both sides of Elbow and Bartholomae’s debate of the teacher’s role in the classroom.

The only thing that I wish there were more of is your own personal thoughts and ideas about the issues both academics bring to the table. I think you have a strong presence and I would love to hear even more of your voice throughout.

Great job and I hope these comments helped.

Rachel Hillmer

September 18, 2008 8:18 am
dra08 on whole page :

test post

September 18, 2008 11:22 am
Brianna on whole page :

Katie,

I like the key concepts you’ve taken from Elbow and Bartholomae. Since you write to revise, where do you stand on this issue? What teaching methods would you advocate?

Would it help to include some of Bizzell’s idedas in this discussion?

Good job.

-Brianna

September 18, 2008 11:45 am
historymajor255 on whole page :

For some reason edublogs isn’t letting me comment on the individual paragraphs, so I’ll write all of my comments up here. I liked your opening paragraph, it was good at grabbing my attention. I also liked your conclusion and your overall arguments. I thought that your use of parenthesis was distracting and confusing, if the information is important to constructing your thought then work it in as an adjective or appositive, if not leave it out. Also, I didn’t really think your ending quote fit in, or maybe I just didn’t get it, maybe add a little explanation. Overall I really enjoyed reading your paper.
Thanks
~Katie M.

September 18, 2008 12:17 pm
Kayla on whole page :

your first statement into paragraph 11 puts a lot of emphasis on Bartholomae’s argument, which would be effective at the beginning of a paper if you were arguing only for him, but as it is used–as a transition between two opposing arguments–it seems a little rough and doesn’t flow very well.

Other than that, you did an awesome job analyzing and explaining the discussion between the two men, but, like everyone else, I’d like to hear what you make of it. Where you think the teacher’s role lies.

Great structure and writing! Thanks for sharing! :-)
Kayla

September 18, 2008 1:39 pm
stan4562 on whole page :

Nice paper! You have great supporting information throughout your paper and did a great job discussing both scholars, however I would love you hear a little more of your voice and thoughts throughout!!

September 18, 2008 1:53 pm
Caitlin on paragraph 9:

Katelin-
I like your opening paragraph, probably because I wrote about the same topic! Don’t be afraid to add some of why you wrote about this in your opening paragraph so that your readers can be connected to you right away.
Caitlin

September 18, 2008 2:26 pm
Caitlin on paragraph 9:

Katelin-
There is no mention of your personal stance on these two different arguments. I am just interested in how you feel and why this interests you.
Thanks for sharing your essay. I enjoyed reading a different perspective on something I wrote about as well.
Caitlin

September 18, 2008 2:28 pm
prat9517 on whole page :

I would get rid of most of the quotes. Paraphrase, say what you mean about their work. I would also use endnotes if you want to cite quotations and ideas, as i think the citations you have now take away from your voice.

September 18, 2008 2:33 pm
Jacqueline Van Hazel on whole page :

I felt like your sentence structure was a little sloppy, this seemed like it could be a good first draft, but it didn’t really have the appeal that I final paper does. I think a little more editing would fix this problem. Also there was a little too much of what Elbow and Bartholomae had discussed in their essays.. I would have liked to have seen more of your own opinion in some of the body paragraphs. You have a good voice, and a good sense of what kinds of evidence you need to back up your argument, and if you just do a little editing, and add a little more voice, this would be a great paper.

Sincerely,
Jacqueline

September 18, 2008 2:41 pm
Jacqueline Van Hazel on paragraph 12:

The beginning sentence in this paragraph is a bit of a run on. It has some great ideas, maybe you could find a way to edit it a little bit.

September 18, 2008 2:41 pm
Chelsea on whole page :

Nice job I liked your paper, but I would like to here more of what you think. I hear a lot of scholars and a lot of quotes and not a lot of you.

September 18, 2008 3:33 pm
coloav33 on whole page :

I like how you incorporated both arguments into your paper. I would recommend using more of yourself and your experiences but it was very well written

September 18, 2008 3:39 pm
Kara on whole page :

I liked your paper alot. You did an amazing job of using both of the scholars in your paper. However, I already read what they had to say, and I know how they feel. My question to you is what do YOU think?
Tell me!
Thank you!
-Kara Jay

September 18, 2008 7:14 pm
nono8 on paragraph 1:

Your last sentence in this paragraph is long and could use a comma after the word “classroom” and maybe use the conjuction “but.” This would help it flow nicely.

September 18, 2008 10:31 pm
nono8 on paragraph 1:

I’m sorry I meant to write this comment about paragraph 9, which is your introduction.

September 18, 2008 10:34 pm
nono8 on whole page :

Katelin,
I like that you thoroughly explained the different perspectives of Elbow and Bartholomae. However, you used so many quotations and citations that it became overhelming. I didn’t really get a sense of how you felt on the subject though. You just presented the scholars’ view and not your own. Thanks for sharing your paper.
~Noel

September 18, 2008 10:43 pm
mbirely on whole page :

Kaite,
You have a very well written start to your paper. You present both scholars ideas very well. I like the way you switch back and forth so effortlessly. I noticed that you want to be a teacher and I think this would be a great personal example for you to bring in to your paper. How do you want your writting classroom to run? Thanks for sharing your paper!
-Meagan Birely

September 18, 2008 11:45 pm
bballd2123 on whole page :

Katelin,
I thought you summarized Elbow and Bartholomae’s articles and opinions very well, but I would have liked to hear more about what you think. We’ve already read and discussed these articles and I would find it more interesting if you gave your input on their ideas. Good work though!
Maria

September 21, 2008 1:03 pm
hein9311 on whole page :

Well studied! You really found a niche in this paper and went with it all the way through — very consistent, well done.

September 21, 2008 3:35 pm
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